Potassium Sorbate

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Potassium Sorbate

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jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28120
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 23 7:30 am Post subject: Potassium Sorbate
I'm planning a flip to the dark side! Some of what we make goes mouldy. The same commercial products don't and contain Potassium Sorbate. So why not just use the stuff in quantities I control?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Sep 23, 23 10:12 am Post subject:

some things last a week, some a month, some forever

it can depend on thing and method, rather than extra "chemicals", would a different recipe change the longevity?

i have some decadal hams that are fine, nothing but various applications of salt and drying to preserve and improve them, with a vinegar scrub to remove early surface mould

they are just hitting the sweet spot between roast pork and Tutankhamun

jam is either 2 months fridge for sloppy stuff or "archaeology" for high fruit high sugar high temp stuff

i have reduced "additives" to things like raw blackberry mash as an antioxidant for jerky and baah snacks

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 23 9:43 am Post subject:
You might try ascorbic acid, otherwise known as Vitamin C, or its sodium or potassium salts. I have seen it used in bread. Vitamin C is not that stable to heat, but the salts might be rather more so. Otherwise, I would suggest thinking about storage. I have a similar problem particularly in warm, damp weather, but usually remove mould and use what is underneath in things like jam.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 23 12:07 pm Post subject:

beware moulds on jam, a few that grow on jam are quite nasty

i fridge store soft set and eat within a couple of months and within a month of opening

"dense"jam, ie low water/high fruit/high sugar/high temp cooking, it is a bit chewy compared to thin jam and has loads more flavour, it lasts forever until opened and at least a year in a fridge after that
i use small jars for that stuff and after opening times do not apply as a jar will be gone in a couple of weeks

reduced by at least half and cooking at around 107/109 C when jarred seems to keep exceptionally well

cordials are a whole world of microbial pain when i try, my jam is apocalypse proof

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8621
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 23 1:12 pm Post subject:

When potting jams jellies and chutneys I use a waxed disc then two or three teaspoonfuls of melted candle wax to seal , before adding the lid. Chutneys get insulation tape around the lid as well

What process are you using to make your cordials dpack?
As it's usually berries, I extract the juice in a large bowl over a large saucepan of simmering water, generally with about a pint of water to 3 pounds of berries, half pint if they are very juicy. Then squeezed out and filtered, sugar added (pound to a pint) and dissolved, filtered again and a teaspoon of pectolase added to stop jelly forming in the bottle when it is processed...in cold water, tops a quarter turn opened, raise to 190 F and hold for 20 minutes before taking out, close top, insulation tape on then cool on their sides before adding wax over the cap and tape.
Never had problems with fermentation so far

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 23 1:53 pm Post subject:
my cordial method now resembles wine making easier, longer lasting and saves on gin

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 23 7:42 am Post subject:
As jam is boiled with added sugar it gets well above the temperature for microbes to form in it. I put it into hot jars rinsed out and put on low heat in the oven soon after it has come off the boil, then screw the tops on hard immediately. Mould only forms when the jar has been opened and left for any length of time.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6540
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 23 9:18 am Post subject:
Jema, what are the food items in question? We freeze, cellar, or can most of our things with no issues.....

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28120
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 23 10:13 am Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Jema, what are the food items in question?
We freeze, cellar, or can most of our things with no issues.....

Chilli sauces are the immediate ones, but I'm thinking of things like Mayo and anything I might buy that typically contains the stuff.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 23 3:49 pm Post subject:
chilli sauces last decades with enough salt and vinegar my hot garam is over decadal and very nice

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 23 3:51 pm Post subject:
mayo, make enough for that meal not a keeper in a sensible world, easy to make small amounts

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 23 6:49 am Post subject:
I wouldn't think any self respecting bug would go anywhere near chilli sauce.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 23 8:11 am Post subject:

oil with chilli or garlic cloves is noted for hosting C. Bot.

ditto times several orders of bugs for fermented fish

anaerobic is a prime location for plenty of microbes, aerobic suits others
some like it hot, others are cool dudes

anything for storage needs attention to reducing microbial challenges

that can be sterile method, unattractive ingredients or freezing it to a few K

sometimes it can be buried in damp soil as a clamp
mummified like ham or boiled and sealed like jam

preservation is a massive subject just on bug issues, make it taste nice after t amount of time is a further set of complexities

the only one i have invented is the hot garam recipe, several years processing, mix, several years maturing
batch two is about ready for mixing, batch one has another decade in it

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6540
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 23 10:43 am Post subject:
Biochemistry is fun. My cat occasionally lucks out with an opportunity to clean out a dinner bowl, and shows no difference between tomato sauce and very spicy curry. Cats are much closer to us evolutionarily than microbes, but they don't have the receptors to give any mind to capsaicin.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45522
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 23 11:24 am Post subject:

we are bugs in many ways, in others we are trying to squat their world

the chemical munchers are rather fun, F2+ to F3+ for lunch is impressive, Sulphur recipes attract a variety of fine diners etc

relaxing in a volcanic mudbath is surprising, as is waking up after a while sleeping quietly, hiding inside bigger things is a very neat trick, hello my mitochondrial borg

not quite microbiology is even more interesting, virus implications are odd
not alive, add life, it acts as though alive
even more part of us than bugs imho

seawater with the audacity to grow legs covers the so called "higher lifeforms", seawater that could not be bothered growing legs covers all the others

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