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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 10:27 am Post subject:

Slim wrote:

The answer isn't in the middle if we are considering climate

Exactly, deaths due to flooding and wildfire in Europe this week.

Just to add, obviously the Tesla has neither used oil nor had any oil changes during it's life, that's a pretty big environmental benefit on its own.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9802
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 10:36 am Post subject:

Slim wrote:

Don't forget to try to get median as well as mean.

The answer isn't in the middle if we are considering climate

I think I meant median...

but we do have to be careful with the idea of making and buying new things to protect the environment - sometimes 'making do' is better. And will differ from person to person and their circumstances.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 10:43 am Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

sometimes 'making do' is better. And will differ from person to person and their circumstances.

It is indeed, but as a species we are obsessed with buying the latest thing. We use iPhones at work, we will always change batteries and screens until the point that there is some real functional reason to upgrade. They're a quality product, my current one must be 7 or 8 years old, but I know a lot of people that upgrade with every new release.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28213
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 1:11 pm Post subject:
The difference with buying EVs is that they save so many emissions that it is worth getting functional old ICE cars off the road preemptively.

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9802
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 2:08 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

(fiat e500 much more likely than a tesla!)

Loads better options than either of those

the advantage of a fiat 500e is it would fit in the space I have next to the house. only just at that. stone walls either side.
what do you have against the fiat? or is it just that other models are better

I think the mokka might suit more of my needs, if I can work out how to charge it as parked in the lane is a distance from the house... any thoughts on this car?

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9802
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 2:11 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

sometimes 'making do' is better. And will differ from person to person and their circumstances.

with this in mind I did wonder if people will upgrade their EV battery rather than a whole car in the future - might well be the way to go but could change the secondhand market drastically.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 2:13 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

what do you have against the fiat? or is it just that other models are better

The only really good ones (at normal prices) from European manufacturers are the VW/Skoda/Cupra stuff. There's plenty of Chinese and Korean options, I'd look at them first, but depends when you're in the market. Things are moving VERY rapidly

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45628
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 2:17 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

with this in mind I did wonder if people will upgrade their EV battery rather than a whole car in the future - might well be the way to go but could change the secondhand market drastically.

This is what I would want to see, at the moment not easy to do, but this is where governments should be getting involved NOT in pushing back electrification dates.

I'd imagine most EVs have the potential to do a million miles on the same gear apart from the battery although some people have racked up a lot of miles, a friend of mine with a 2015 Tesla has almost 300k miles on it same battery pack and motor.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46091
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 7:24 pm Post subject:

most governments are owned by fossil(basics)

will the consumers please breed in the interests of the economy(old crusty meme, preferably with a 1950s "perfect" family and a huge collection of consumer goods in the graphic)

owt that works for us and maybe does less harm is a thing that works for us

i have stopped worrying the little stuff, "green" is often the most efficient way but if i need to i can be ruthless and be less than "green" with available tech etc

some "green" is almost pointless and difficult, some is a good life used well

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28213
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 24 7:33 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Things are moving VERY rapidly

a point that cannot be emphasized enough.
A 2024 BYD Dolphin which is the current main offering at a cheap price in the UK might still be a great car in a couple of years if you only care about it doing its job as a car.
But on other levels it will look like a Trabant. The competition is really heating up.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28213
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 24 10:24 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

September 22nd 2024, imec claim high energy density lithium metal batteries compatible with existing manufacturing processes
The detail though suggests 3 times the cost of where I suspect LFP batteries are getting to right now and a 100 cycle life. That translates to 30,000 miles before a BEV battery hits serious degradation.
https://www.imec-int.com/en/press/lithium-metal-battery-novel-solid-electrolyte-achieves-1070-whl-through-cost-effective
September 22nd 2024, BMW teaming up with Redwood on battery recycling
Batteries are fill of valuable materials the recycling industry will grow. Possibly the story here is that the recycling industry can influence manufacturing to gear to recycling. One elephant in the room is Tesla 4680 battery packs that are fill of â€œgooâ€ making them practically impossible to repair and more difficult to recycle.
https://cleantechnica.com/2024/09/20/bmw-to-get-battery-recycling-support-from-jb-straubels-redwood-materials/
September 21st 2024, Lithium Vanadium batteries claimed to be better than LFP
Boston startup Pure Lithium is replacing Nickel and Cobalt in cathodes with vanadium which is relatively abundant.
https://www.mining.com/vanadium-is-the-new-battery-cathode-chemistry-says-pure-lithium-ceo/

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