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Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15714

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 24 4:50 pm Post subject:
Having worked with some US companies in the past they seem to have little idea of quality control. Perhaps that is the problem.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45509
Location: Essex

Posted: Sat Jun 15, 24 5:38 pm Post subject:
Well even Boeing seem to have shocking quality control so I guess yeah

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28161
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 24 7:49 am Post subject:

A pretty busy week in terms of new developments and updates. An interesting development a day or thereabouts.

June 15th
Throwing this in the mix as we care about batteries mostly because of range, but 20% better efficiency is the same as 20% better battery. It equally important and oft forgotten.
https://electrek.co/2024/06/14/lucid-ceo-air-efficiency-5-miles-per-kwh-no-one-else-is-even-close/
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June 15th
Still not good news of the 4860 front, still seems like an expensive impossible to repair battery undercut by third parties. Can a new head really defy reality and deliver a cheaper product by end of year when the competition is far from standing still?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-s-4680-battery-cells-are-still-not-good-enough-musk-dodged-investor-questions-235409.html

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June 14th
Latest study that suggests little damage is done fast charging a modern EV. It is not however split out by battery chemistry or charging to 100% rather than 80% and of course the data for fast charging remains sparse as few people regularly fast charge.

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/impacts-of-fast-charging
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June 14th
Another Factorial update superceding the June 7th article on them sampling cells to Mercedes. The aim is a 90kwh battery driving 600 miles range whilst being 30% less in weight and size.
https://newatlas.com/automotive/factorial-solid-state-battery-b-sample/
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June 13th
BYD and CATL both launching batteries with full 10 minute charging. This article also explains what 6C charging means.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/13/byd-catl-to-launch-battery-with-6c-fast-charging-report-says/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR25haQyf2IooRu0Pj8d_V31t5Rnba2WFPGYWb06ea-V-_jzemAb9DwJcnw_aem_AUtqiXQu31whVEkq-r5XSecoZTRzFfErg0M0BkOHnGfM23mpa-TK_0XIgfRFkYonu2XSqzMPqKtQJxM43H9dSGtW
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June 13th
Liquid air energy storage plant being built in the UK. Claimed to be economical at scale. As ever this sort of development begs the question of what is "really" economic? Ripping coal from the ground in Wales was nicely economic for mine owners, but the slag heaps are not economic for us now. Lithium and Cobalt are also "nicely economic" and not the utter horror fossil fuel companies would have us believe, but even materials that will be recycled come at an environmental and social cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crgg81j2xdpo
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June 13th
More environmentally friendly lithium extraction from dilute sources of lithium.
https://www.technologynetworks.com/applied-sciences/news/new-method-optimizes-lithium-extraction-from-seawater-and-groundwater-387665#:~:text=Scientists%20at%20the%20University%20of,and%20offshore%20oil%20drilling%20operations.
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June 13th
High temperature sodium sulfur batteries for grid storage.
https://www.ess-news.com/2024/06/11/basf-ngk-launch-sodium-sulfur-battery-with-less-than-1-degradation-rate/
_____________
June 8th 2024
China invests in solid-state research. To me amidst the current rash of solid-state announcements touted incredible energy densities it is a portent of even more amazing things to come.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Accelerates-Solid-State-Battery-Development-with-Government-Funding-Boost.html

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June 4th 2024
Gotion annouces 10 minute charging technology ready for immediate mass production
https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/gotion-high-tech-ev-battery-fast-charge/
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June 3rd 2024
South Korean collaboration claims an aluminium oxide anode coating that helps with fast charging stability, though the numbers quoted are not striking me as anything special.
https://www.techexplorist.com/new-tech-ensures-stability-lithium-ion-batteries-under-fast-charging-conditions/84347/?utm_source=IM&utm_medium=IM&utm_id=IM&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR14db7n_bNptKIcjFnxGkf-C4P0bf2SVKWJpILsvm_cGUQX6fO8cZNkGR8_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

_________
31st May 2024
Claims that thermal energy storage is competitive with lithium ion, but an acknowledgement that battery prices are dropping this decade.

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/new-energy-storage-tech-poised-to-outcompete-lithium-ion-batteries-bnef/2-1-1651998
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31st May 2024
2000 cycles from StoreDot on a silicon anode battery is a milestone event.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/storedot-battery-cycles-ev-milestone/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1LFoRzhLm2HbhrO4b9tJ3DwEP2C7WYmM7susaWL3Rg1-IMSdAg65cMc30_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw

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29th May 2024
Lithium sulfur claiming 70% retention at 1000 cycles with a theoretical possible density of 500wh/kg.
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/05/28/bringing-lithium-sulfur-batteries-closer-to-commercialization/
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28th May 2024
SAIC claim full solid state production by 2026
https://www.thedrive.com/news/chinas-saic-motor-says-itll-mass-produce-solid-state-ev-batteries-by-2026

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24th May 2024
EV batteries are outlasting cars

https://www.theenergymix.com/ev-batteries-outlive-the-cars-as-degradation-concerns-begin-to-evaporate/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1_io4xwwd1cxUIDGG6Wk0wQ6QnT91kOQ9AhLMcRpyNVvBntukSlb0xMl8_aem_AY9uvzyFzOkJtvqBAI-37kE3FCykvf8hevHvJSbWovhLZPuQrcR3fpGIvSWyAgUsR_6NjEeWpGlsMluu-mE-GY73

19th May 2024
Nitron energy more sodium batteries
https://newatlas.com/energy/natron-sodium-ion-battery-production-startt/

19th May 2024
Zinc Lignin batteries have cheap cycle life, but only lead acid power densities.
https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=63000#:~:text=Link%C3%B6ping%20University%20researchers%20created%20a,the%20journal%20Energy%20%26%20Environmental%20Materials.
_______________
19th May 2024
GWM claims solid-state pouch batteries
https://carnewschina.com/2024/05/10/gwm-gives-details-of-solid-state-battery-and-other-news-at-agm/

These are not at EV pack level yet.

19th May 2024

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sodium-ion-battery-by-ex-Tesla-engineer-can-hit-300-mile-range-parity-with-LFP-cells-for-cheaper-EVs.838910.0.html

Claim of 300 mile sodium batteries receiving seed funding for production.
_____________
19th May 2024
https://www.electrive.com/2024/04/09/byd-to-prepare-market-launch-of-next-generation-blade-battery/
BYD releasing LFMP? batteries in August 2024. Claimed 190wh/kg density.
______________
19th May 2024
CATL announcing 205wh/kg LFP batteries
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html#:~:text=At%20Auto%20China%202024%2C%20CATL,kilometers%20with%204C%20superfast%20charging.

______________
19th May 2024
First Sodium grid battery live in China.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/05/13/china-1st-large-sodium-battery-energy-storage-station-operation/
______________
19th May 2024
Toyota are building battery production in the USA.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-supercharges-north-carolina-battery-plant-with-new-8-billion-investment/

No mention of battery chemistry.

_______________
19th May 2024

Gotion High-tech LFMP
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/24/breakthrough-ev-battery-pack-could-last-2-million-kms-or-130-years-of-average-driving/

Claim of 240wh/kg at cell level and 4000 cycle, 2 million km lifetime.

________
19th May 2024
CATL 1.5 million km LFP battery, with zero degradation over 1000 cycles.
https://www.theenergymix.com/chinas-catl-unveils-1-5m-km-ev-battery-long-duration-storage-unit/

________
19th May 2024
LM motors Semi solid-state EV production.
https://carnewschina.com/2024/04/15/im-l6-with-semi-solid-state-battery-to-launch-may-13/

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45509
Location: Essex

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 24 8:58 pm Post subject:
My nephews working on the liquid air project, he says itâ€™s really tough getting stuff like this to get properly funded in the uk. If it does hit the market then heâ€™s confident itâ€™ll work on every level

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15714

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 24 4:03 pm Post subject:
Funding for going for development and into production has always been hard in the UK; that is why the US is often so far ahead of us.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45801
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 24 6:52 pm Post subject:
pump it up, let it out can be quite effective energy storage, ref assorted dead rats all it should take is decent engineering and political will to make assorted good things work with that as one of them big money is still backing fossil and therefore backing "green crap" political actions by buying the right perps to obstruct and distract

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45509
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jun 17, 24 7:57 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

big money is still backing fossil and therefore backing "green crap" political actions by buying the right perps to obstruct and distract

That's his view on it

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6559
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 24 11:24 am Post subject:
That's the bit that makes me so frustrated. There's so much money to be made and the economy to be stimulated by R&D and greening everything. I guess it's not concentrated enough in the hands of entrenched power, however

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45509
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 24 12:56 pm Post subject:

Slim wrote:

That's the bit that makes me so frustrated. There's so much money to be made and the economy to be stimulated by R&D and greening everything.
I guess it's not concentrated enough in the hands of entrenched power, however

The problem is that too many of the wealthiest people are deeply entrenched in a fossil fuel world and they will fight as hard and as long as possible to delay the transition

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6559
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 24 5:45 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Slim wrote:

The problem is that too many of the wealthiest people are deeply entrenched in a fossil fuel world and they will fight as hard and as long as possible to delay the transition

But they could make sooooo much money on that transition if they were the big investors.....

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45509
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 24 5:48 pm Post subject:
Thatâ€™s true. I donâ€™t know why theyâ€™re still backing the wrong horse but they are

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15714

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 24 9:16 pm Post subject:
I think, although they still make some cigarettes, British American Tobacco (BAC) did the right thing in going into other industries when there was a push to legislate against smoking. Fossil fuel companies would do well to go the same way and go into 'green' energy production. No idea why they don't; it is a sensible move.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45801
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 24 6:08 am Post subject:

there was a french car chap on nonsense o clock news telly, he was still "selling" domestic ice dependant and SUV style as the best thing available

between the lines journo opinion seemed to be that the established ice car firms are bricking it big style as are transport fuel big fossil

hence 35% tariffs on what are effectively "domestic goods" that the local suppliers do not have the ability to supply

fossil and the stampers have also obstructed the required partnerships with the energy production/distribution part of trying to not make things worse, and much nicer if you are next to the machines

DRAX + PETCOKE

they stopped, with little public knowledge, good training

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45509
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 24 6:59 am Post subject:
DRAX? Theyâ€™re importing pellets some from virgin forest to burn, beyond mental, truly ridiculous

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45801
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 24 7:39 am Post subject:

better than petcoke, not really

a while back they added petcoke to the fuel input, not ideal for the beasts around the area who needed massive amounts of copper supplements to overcome hypocurosis in our cattle and other folk's sheep, it seems unlikely to be good for people either

petcoke is a useful "ore" for molybdenum, the dust from ash heaps and perhaps from the smoke stacks had a detrimental effect on health

i did not get anywhere near supreme court level proof, i wonder why, i could put enough together for an informal chat

the CEO was not keen on the tone of my "i know what you are doing" phone call

they stopped

if at a wall, have a chat with the king behind it

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