charcoal for cooking, masterclass please, updates and ongoin

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 21 6:32 pm Post subject: charcoal for cooking, masterclass please, updates and ongoin

i still have over a year to be ready to cook on fire over several days

i can cook on fire

first thing i need to know is how much fuel do i need for maybe 100kg of meat and veg?

i might do a saddle of bambi and a half pig and maybe a big lump of moo as slow cook
there will be short order tapas, sides in a pan and daft little crispy things to fry(frying on fire is fun)

for several hours with a hundred on the "big afternoon" i need to do BBQ suitable for all
ie burgers and sausages, chook and corn
and a little more my style of cooking at the same time so very broad but heated with charcoal(wood is also available)

total fuel use maybe 250 covers over a few days, various styles

fast/slow, predictable and adjustable would be ideal, what do i need to use?

other folk are doing breads and cakes and dim sum and salads etc

i get to grill dead things

Last edited by dpack on Mon Nov 01, 21 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 21 6:34 am Post subject:

at a guess i need to slow cook 50 kg and fast cook 50kg

oildrum size bbqs are available, as is a combo version with hot smoker

for the evening cold cuts
i recon a saddle of bambi and a pig's bum in the smoker
rib rack of beef along the back of the bbq with a dripping tray

for the afternoon large scale family wedding bbq
pork spare ribs, prepped, poached in 100 yr sauce and finished on a fast bbq
chicken portions, ditto but court bouillon
sausages sous vide, finished fast bbq
fishy things, fast bbq
vegan skewers, fast bbq
assorted burgers, fast bbq
other fast stuff as available or decided upon
assorted gravy for the taffeta or new shirt folk, i was planning on wearing a tank suit, fireproof, adjustable and hard to see the stains

there will be family and crew food while setting up and winding down
the setting up bit is important as this is a place i do not know with some borrowed kit and crabs or something for 15 on friday night would be a good start to getting kit sorted and maybe getting some stuff in the smoker overnight(i have done 4 day cold smokes of big pigs etc so small fire and snooze is not a problem)

i will take chapati kit but that might be for family and crew rather than for a 100, let them eat posh breads from the posh bread shop quite a few of them work in.
i am also catering for several restaurant/takeaway owners
many of the "mob"are serious foodies which makes it easier in some ways as bespoke cooking on fire is a better use of ingredients than trying for the "standard"brit bbq of charred frozen sausage and salmonella on a stick

there is a big fire pit thing and wood(unknown wood but wood) so a hangi is plausible for some of the slow cooked things if i can obtain suitable rocks if not slow needs consideration

ps there are several small kitchens available on site and a couple of trade size fridges in the big one which is an ideal space for prep etc

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15950

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 21 7:47 am Post subject:

I know that under still conditions our British charcoal cooked about 200 burgers and about 100 sausages using 3 bags approx 3.5kg once. The conditions are key though; if it is windy, you will use more.

For the slow cook, a covered barbecue will give the best results and you won't need too much charcoal. With British, you can add a bit more as needed as no additives and reheats quickly.

Sorry, that's all I know. I would suggest trying to find a local artisan supplier, and coming to some sale or return deal with him. He will expect the return to be in good condition both as far as charcoal and bags is concerned.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Apr 02, 21 10:20 am Post subject:

if i have enough i will be able to use the rest later

50 kg seems a place to start with good stuff, access to unknown firewood and i can send somebody shopping if it starts to look a bit cold

thanks

when we did curry for 500 which turned out to be for a thousand we only had 3 refills of deep bed in the oildrum bbq

that area and ventilation are big criteria is a very good point

i am game for buying a dumpy bag and owt left over is not likely to be wasted as if dry it lasts as well as salt

is half a kilo of fuel to a kilo of "flesh" daft for shopping purposes?

do i buy by wt or volume?

3 half oil drums for 2 days might be about right, details etc

a lot of these folk are staying so it is not just afternoon bbq, the weekend of dead animals on fire and cold cuts for maybe 300 covers in total

how does volume of good stuff compare with wt?

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15950

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 21 7:09 am Post subject:

It will depend to some extent on the wood used for the charcoal as to the weight to volume ratio. We sell theoretically by volume, as by weight causes all sorts of issues. Our approx. 3.5kg bag is about the same volume as the 5kg bags of imported stuff, but although we have a marker set up on the bagging tray if we have to bag that way, I am not sure of the exact volume. I will try to measure it today to give you some idea.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 21 10:13 am Post subject:

thanks , every little detail adds to knowledge, i should know this stuff as i have done loads of cooking on fire but

if they are still working the local folk you suggested seemed to do various types so hopefully i can get a selection of slow and superhot fast burning

bbq season round here smells like a badly run oil refinery from the "easy light" charcoal and charbricks many folk seem to choose
imho cooking on a 1960's sofa cushion or a flipflop sole would probably taste better

as to lighting the real stuff a feather stick is usually adequate, my homemade overnight burner or earth stopped cookfire charcoal will light from a spark and a blow to get the first two bits going. free radicals and stuff.

i just had a thought that hot water is very useful, there are kitchens and kettles and ting but if i pop the ghillie kettle in the kit the hot water for wiping skewers, knives etc is where it is needed at all times

thinking of knives i need my best ones strapped to me( 2 tojiro's, a damascus mini cleaver and either the axe or the kukri.)otherwise i will waste loads of time wondering where i put it or ripping somebody a new one for using, or worse dishwashing one.
this means i need to get SIL to make me a tojiro cosy for the slicer and little prep hook, ace and he will get more things for his tool kit and plate, at home they stick on the magnet strip , the cleaver(razor edge and my go to general kitchen blade) has a very nice leather cosy as they are popular with assassins as well as street chefs and a chicken or a rival are both easy to dispatch with a "handaxe", the posher ones came naked and are both strong and delicate and not to be used by anybody but me

blackbeard in a tanksuit with a tac vest of metal is probably a good look for a family wedding photo

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 21 10:25 am Post subject:

my ideal fuel mix would include oak and chestnut and birch as charcoal in separate bags

oak and fruitwoods as sticks

ash and or dry birch as accelerant as required, feather sticks are us

conifer cooking is nice but not to most folks tastes so i will reserve that for a few choice dishes
(this might well be illegal and immoral in 2021 but arctic hare hot smoked/toasted for a few hours on green scots pine is delightful, a bit retsina, but ace)
not on this menu

ps conifer hot smoked meat keeps rather well as "fresh" pack rations

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15950

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 21 8:16 am Post subject:

The best thing to do is to have a chat with the supplier. If they are local artisan producers, I am sure you can spend a long time discussing various charcoals they make. At present, we are mainly doing ash, but when we eventually get enough in, we are hoping to do an oak burn. We have done some birch, and that was very dense too. Otherwise our main available wood is beech. It will depend on what wood the charcoal burner can get.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 21 9:36 am Post subject:
thanks, that is good advice, plan ahead might be sensible if i want a selection of fuels

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 21 10:23 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

ps conifer hot smoked meat keeps rather well as "fresh" pack rations

Ever been to Finland, up north? They use actual pine tar as an ingredient. Seals the bottoms of boats, vulcanises rubber, kills pathogens, goes great on ice cream. *That* is a bit retsina.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 21 1:44 pm Post subject:

nah not been there, pine tar or sprinkles and flake? all three would be surprising, other pine type themed stuff yep both by the native cooks from the north to the med or cos that was the fuel i had

thinking of pine and pud there is a "special" one that gets tapped for sap on the adriatic, that is pretty good on ice cream
no idea what species it is(victoriancoloniala matureii perhaps) in the local park that has ace proto amber as in boiled sweets with a delicate but rather antiseptic theme, that one has potential

when cooking for a crowd less "unusual" is a good core theme

the swedish liquorice combos are rather good

a northern bambi might be a fun dish and would suit pine or birch and strange dark sauces

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 21 5:02 pm Post subject:
Tar. Not flakes or essence or eau de. Tar. Thick, black, sticky liquid. Like you put on boat and roofs. They dribble it over stuff. Madness. (Itâ€™s delicious) You can buy sprinkles and flakes and powder, too.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 21 5:05 pm Post subject:
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/finland/articles/finland-love-tar-flavoured-food/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46192
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 21 8:18 am Post subject:

Nick wrote:

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/finland/articles/finland-love-tar-flavoured-food/

wow

i knew about waterproofing, glue and medicine etc and running a motorbike on suitable tar extracts

i did not know that pine tar could be food like sap or resin, now i want to try it

the finnish trip i was offered i could not afford, i might be able to stretch to a bottle of tar for my ice cream and or bambi's bum

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 21 9:40 am Post subject:
No one can afford a trip to Scandinavia. If they ever let me back in I shall go shopping for you.

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