Tail Docking

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Tail Docking
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Beckyess

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1076
Location: Worcestershire

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 9:33 am Post subject: Tail Docking
Now I know this is controversial enough in dogs (although a partial ban coming in from 6th April) but what about in other animals? Here is a link to an experiment in pain in lambs being docked. I think the video speaks for itself. https://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/animalpain/Pages/Moviepages/MovieTDlambRRla.htm Do we have a right to inflict that level of pain on an animal? Becky

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 9:41 am Post subject:
We must remember why sheep have their tails docked, saves alot of pain and even death if the maggots get in. You could argue that sometimes pain for a short time can save pain in the long term, even death. Although pain to animals is something that needs to be avoided at all times. Interestingly some farmers now use corterizer type cutters to cut and seal the cut off point.

Beckyess

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1076
Location: Worcestershire

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 1:28 pm Post subject:
That I could understand if all sheep were docked, but they aren't! Becky

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 1:48 pm Post subject:
If you have ten semi-pet sheep that you can keep your eye on then fine, but if you have 500-1000 on a hill then that would be a different matter surely?

Beckyess

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1076
Location: Worcestershire

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 2:24 pm Post subject:
Again this is where the arguement falls flat. Hill sheep are rarely docked, round here I would say it is 50/50 docked to undocked. Some breeds specifically aren't docked so the claim that it is for health reasons seems incorrect. Becky

starmoonlilly

Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 218
Location: Northampton

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 3:01 pm Post subject:
Most of the sheep Ive seen in Scotland are not docked, and most herds of cows have a resident bull too. Much more natural in my opinion. I dont understand why some are docked and some are not.

Marionb

Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 5267
Location: Mid-Wales

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 6:17 pm Post subject:
None of the lambs we ring show signs suffer that level of distress... looking at that lamb, I wouldnt be surprised if he had been castrated as well......

crofter

Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 2252

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 8:10 pm Post subject:

starmoonlilly wrote:

Most of the sheep Ive seen in Scotland are not docked, and most herds of cows have a resident bull too. Much more natural in my opinion.

I dont understand why some are docked and some are not.

Less flies in Scotland possibly?

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45641
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 8:23 pm Post subject:
dog no other critters i dont know

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 8:43 pm Post subject:
We dock all ours, if you had seen for yoursself what fly strike can do believe me you would dock too.

Tay

Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 2811
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 07 9:05 pm Post subject:
The only ones not to get docked (rubber bands put on shortly after being born) here are those who will be going to the abattoir in the near future. Flies here are a major problem, and most sheep farmers have at least 100 in their flocks, so can't keep as close an eye on them as they would like.

Tradbritfowlco

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 526

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 07 9:19 pm Post subject:
my simplistic view is that animals have tails for a reason and if you dont want them, breed them shorter rather than cutting them off. I wouldnt dock anything, how its born is how it stays with me.

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 07 9:22 pm Post subject:
Sheep and dogs GM'd to have no tail. I like it.

Gervase

Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 8655

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 07 9:39 pm Post subject:

Hill sheep aren't docked because they have a leaner diet than lowland sheep and are less likely to scour. Lowland sheep, feeding on richer and damper pastures, are far more prone to loose turds, and there;s nothing encourages fly-strike more than a damp, sh!tty rear.
Yes, putting the bands on does seem to cause some discomfort for about 10 minutes, but I'd rather that than see the results of fly-strike. and, after 10 minutes, the lambs are up and suckling from their mothers and apparently none the worse for their experience. By the time the tail atrophies and drops off, they seem completely oblivious to the fact.
The band around the nadgers seems to cause more discomfort (surprise surprise!), but even that is usually a 10 minute wonder, and then the lamb stomps off, bandy-legged, looking for a teat.
The fact is, sheep as we have them today have been bred a long way from any weild creature capable to sustaining itself, and thus intervention is necessary. We live amid lush lowland pastures - sheep are designed for arid mountainous conditions. Hence the need for intervention with tails, hoofs and fleeces.

PS: having just watched the video, I'm willing to bet a tenner that it is footage of a lamb with a castration ring, not a tail ring. I have seen such behaviour with castration, but never with a tail ring.

Last edited by Gervase on Sun Apr 01, 07 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

Green Man

Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5272
Location: Rural Scotland.

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 07 9:42 pm Post subject:
Unsupervised hill sheep need their tails docked too. Fly strike is lethal in Scotland too.

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