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Microgeneration contribution to future energy mix
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Behemoth



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 05 2:51 pm    Post subject: Microgeneration contribution to future energy mix Reply with quote
    

Monday 12 December 2005 11:15
Department of Trade and Industry (National)

MICROGENERATION COULD MAKE A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTION TO THE UK'S FUTURE ENERGY MIX


Wicks welcomes new report which underlines possibilities of local energy production

Mini wind turbines, solar panels and other small scale technologies could provide a substantial portion of the UK's energy needs by 2050, according to a new report from the Energy Saving Trust, that is published today.

It also finds that microgeneration technologies could deliver significant household carbon reductions in future with the right circumstances in place.

The report - Potential for Microgeneration, study and analysis - was commissioned by the DTI to inform the Low Carbon Building programme and the wider microgeneration strategy, that is to be published in spring 2006. It has looked at the current status of the industry and perceived barriers to the wider uptake of the different types of technology. It has also suggested when each of these technologies could become more cost effective.

The main findings include:

* That by 2050 micogeneration could potentially provide 30-40% of the UK's total electricity needs

* That by 2050 microgeneration could help to reduce CO2 emissions by 15% per year

The Chief Executive Philip Sellwood of the Energy Saving Trust, said: "Our findings paint a promising picture for the future energy needs of the UK.

Over the next 10 to 40 years a large proportion of homes in the UK could be generating their own energy, saving tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions and helping to prevent climate change."

Commenting on the report energy minister Malcolm Wicks said: "This report makes an important contribution to the debate on microgeneration.

"I would like more micro wind turbines, solar panels and other technologies on schools, homes and businesses as they can make a real difference in reducing the UK's carbon emissions, as well as helping people to understand better where our energy comes from and increase their energy efficiency. "

-ends-

Notes to editors

* The report was undertaken by the Energy Saving Trust on behalf of the DTI in conjunction with Element Energy Limited, E-Connect and Cambridge University Faculty of Economics. For the executive summary, go here: https://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/consultations/pdfs/microgeneration-est-summary.pdf

* A full copy of the report can be obtained here: https://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/consultations/pdfs/microgeneration-est-report.pdf.

* The DTI will publish its microgeneration strategy in spring 2006. The consultation document can be found here: https://www.dti.gov.uk/consultations/files/publication-1505.pdf

* Almost 200 responses to the consultation were received, they can be viewed here: https://www.dti.gov.uk/energy/consultations/microgeneration-responses-alphabetical.shtml

* The Energy Saving Trust - was set up by the government after the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro and is one of the UK's leading organisations addressing the damaging effects of climate change. It aims to cut carbon dioxide emissions by promoting the sustainable and efficient use of energy for households, small business and the road transport sector. The Energy Saving Trust is a not for profit organisation funded by Government and the private sector. The Energy Saving Trust runs a number of national programmes which provide funding, information and advice to encourage the installation of microgeneration technologies, including the PV Major Demonstration programme, Community Energy programme and Scottish Communities and Household Renewables Initiative.

* Element Energy - is a dynamic and growing engineering company specialising in strategic energy consultancy and design and development services in the renewable and alternative energy sectors.

* Econnect - is an electrical engineering consultancy operating globally in the renewables and embedded generation sectors.

Department of Trade and Industry
7th Floor
1 Victoria Street
London SW1H 0ET

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 05 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I was hearing on File on 4 (Radio4) yesterday afternoon that the CHP industry, in particular, are very peeved that there has been no improvement in the arrangements for selling surplus electricty to the grid. The point was that there was little incentive for the installation of (micro)generating equipment with more output than could be used where and when it was produced.
Distributed generation sidesteps transmission losses, and CHP ensures minimal wasteage of the energy used in producing electricity...

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It'll be interesting to see what's in the report when it's published and to see what sort of incentives may be provided to encourage the take up or microgeneration.

Some of the existing grants seem to be worth a fair bit and paid direct to the installers of equipment. If you build and installed all the equipemnt yourself can you claim the same grants or are these only available to suppliers?

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

I don't know of any grants (for domestic properties, at least) that do not require the installer to be registered under the grant scheme...
Has anyone come across any grants for DIY?

alternative-energy



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Kent
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 3:44 pm    Post subject: mircopower generation Reply with quote
    

Yes, this will be a large growth area in the next 50 or so years. DIY jobs will take some time to sort out though and it is doubtful if they will ever be given DTI grant approval. You would have to be accredited to install and this takes time enough for a company to sort out.

Good energy currently offer 5p perkwh for all the electricity generated (whether its used or not). Others pay the householder the same as they charge other customers for any excess eletricity.


visit
www.alternative-energy.co.uk

non profit site that details our move to mircopower generation at our suburban house. there are lots of links

hope I can feature on downsizer soon!

Paul

ken69



Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 316
Location: Norfolk
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 4:01 pm    Post subject: Energy Reply with quote
    

'Clear Skies' say DIY grants are not allowable, and have noticed in recent Energy Savings Trust Anglia letters a tendancy to just supply names of suppliers together with a disclaimer.
Our local council however seem well up on the info for Council Energy Tax Credits.
No real willingness that I can see from EST to help unless they have to. Just cherrypicking window dressing.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

So what is the justification for not giving DIYers the same grants? If two households installed the same system one could claim £1000s in grant money, well the certified installers could, and the other couldn't claim anything. If you're connecting to the mains then I can see the need for the electrical work to be done by a 'competent' person, but the installing of panels, wind turbines etc could be done by a DIYer or a builder.

Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
So what is the justification for not giving DIYers the same grants? If two households installed the same system one could claim £1000s in grant money, well the certified installers could, and the other couldn't claim anything. If you're connecting to the mains then I can see the need for the electrical work to be done by a 'competent' person, but the installing of panels, wind turbines etc could be done by a DIYer or a builder.


You wouldn't worry that some unscrupulous DIY-ers might just pocket the cash without doing whatever they said they would (or just putting up a bit of perspex on the roof and pretending that it's a solar water heater)?


Peter.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Blue Peter wrote:
Treacodactyl wrote:
So what is the justification for not giving DIYers the same grants? If two households installed the same system one could claim £1000s in grant money, well the certified installers could, and the other couldn't claim anything. If you're connecting to the mains then I can see the need for the electrical work to be done by a 'competent' person, but the installing of panels, wind turbines etc could be done by a DIYer or a builder.


You wouldn't worry that some unscrupulous DIY-ers might just pocket the cash without doing whatever they said they would (or just putting up a bit of perspex on the roof and pretending that it's a solar water heater)?


Peter.


Having seen some of the quotes by authorised suppliers it can appear as if they are doing the same thing.

Anyway, people claim all sorts of grants and benefits. Unless you're suggesting all other grants and benefits are claimed fraudently why not use the same sort of vetting?

Blue Peter



Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Treacodactyl wrote:
Having seen some of the quotes by authorised suppliers it can appear as if they are doing the same thing.

Anyway, people claim all sorts of grants and benefits. Unless you're suggesting all other grants and benefits are claimed fraudently why not use the same sort of vetting?


Dunno, but I suspect that was the reason and/or they want to make sure that the job is done properly so that we are getting whatever reduction the grant is supposed to be encouraging,


Peter.

ken69



Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 316
Location: Norfolk
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 5:15 pm    Post subject: energy Reply with quote
    

The money is probably there, but the consultants, office staff, vetting officers, appraisers, surveyors and printers et al come first.
The audit figures for EST would make good reading.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator


Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

It would be good to see a case study with the costs and grants listed and explained.

Perhaps the government could subsidise solar panels or home wind generators?

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 05 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: mircopower generation Reply with quote
    

alternative-energy wrote:
... site that details our move to mircopower generation at our suburban house.


Hi Paul, welcome to the site. I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting to hear more about your install.

Personally, I'm a little surprised that you have decided to go Solar PV as a first main step. I've thought that it made sense for those off-grid, and perhaps those who use their electricity largely during sunny days.

I note from the figures on your site that your planned installation is expected to generate 2950 kWh per year. And that Good's contract requires you to sell **all** of it back to Good at 4.5p per kWh, which would raise something like £133 a year.
As I understand Good's contract, your generation and consumption are treated *seperately*.
You sell *all* your generated power to them. And continue to buy *all* your electricity consumption from them - at a higher price!
As far as I can tell, you **don't** get to use your own electricity 'for free'.
I refer to para 3 of the Terms and Conditions (small print) of their contract (as downloaded from their site) "The Renewable Generator agrees to sell all the benefits arising from its renewable output to Good Energy."
And that they require you to "Have a meter installed on your generator which records the total generation data."

I note that you are opting for a system costing almost £18,000 and expect to get a grant covering £8,000 of that.

Which means that, at current prices, the system has a predicted payback time of about 75 years. (£10k net cost, £133pa return on investment).

I wonder if you could tell us why you chose to go first for Solar PV, when other systems, like solar thermal, would appear to offer a greater money and carbon saving per £ invested?
To my eyes, the figures don't indicate PV as being the most effective investment - and I'd genuinely like an explanation of how you see the numbers. I don't know what point I'm missing!

Having heard that there is some 'turmoil' in the industry concerning the changeover in the grant schemes, I must ask - has your grant been absolutely cast iron guaranteed? (I note that you seem to be planning an April '06 installation, by when I'd thought that the present grant regime was due to have ended.) Because without that grant, the system becomes terribly expensive.
(EDIT: Paul, the link to your site's "Grants" page doesn't work.)

I also wondered whether or not the prices quoted included the cost of installing the special meter required to sell back electricity?

dougal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 05 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

On Monday, dougal wrote:
...very peeved that there has been no improvement in the arrangements for selling surplus electricty to the grid.


Paul's choices illustrate this problem.

If he used all the energy he generated, he would cut his electricity bill by £300.
But selling it instead brings in only £133.

So could he use it himself instead?
IMHO, since his electricity is going to be generated mainly during the daytime, in summer, when its rather UNlikely that he would be consuming electricity at a rate of over 3.28kW, I think its UNlikely that he will use a large proportion. And if its less than 133/300 (call it 45%) of his generation that he'd use, then he's better off to sell it.

Minor complicating (and economically worsening) factor: Income Tax. The theoretical maximum £300 saving comes out of tax-paid income (ie its a tax-free £300 extra in his pocket), whereas, I suspect the Inland Revenue would regard the £133 as being additional income, and so taxable...

On Monday, dougal wrote:
The point was that there was little incentive for the installation of (micro)generating equipment with more output than could be used where and when it was produced.

The way that the economic factors work, as illustrated in Paul's case, is that a more economically justifiable investment for him would be a *smaller* system on an arrangement whereby he only generates approximately the amount that he is likely to steadily use - and he might even give away any surplus electricity to the grid. (This is the Windsave approach.)
My point is that the steady summer daytime *consumption* (ie when PV is generating strongly) is likely to be low.
The industry point is that the economic rules steer people away from renewable microgeneration beyond their own immediate consumption.

alternative-energy



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Kent
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 05 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
    

Dougal,
You seem to be good at answering your own questions!!
When i have while... tonight... I'll post my full reply, in the meantime don't forget to factor:
the environmental considerations, IMHO this isnt all about value for money (at this stage).This is lifestyle choice as well, not purely economic... more details tonight

inflation of fuel costs, how much is it this year >15%?

cost of upgrading, scaffolidng on its own is expensive. Get the job done properly, once

personal consumption...we plan to run an electric car from the panels in time.

Getting hold of the grant now before DTI transfer it to new builds. I have cast iron grant funding for 8200 staring from 24th Novemeber and held for 6 months to get installation completed. More details on website.


Getting on with it ... I'm a half full kind of person

I live in Kent also... once its up and running you are welcome to come over and have a look and I'll go through figures with you if you like.

use of this technology is expensive at this stage... and there isnt much info so welcome the debate

Hope you find it possible to embrace

Paul
www.alternative-energy.co.uk

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